• 07Sep

    An island is a great place to contemplate the concept of evolution. (It seemed to work for Charles Darwin.) I know there are multiple perspectives and meanings related to this term, so for the purposes of this article, I’m defining evolution as a process by which something develops into a different or better form. Things change over time, including individuals, organizations, and cultures. So it was good timing that I spent a week in Hawai’i recently, with time to think about the ongoing evolution of NAI.

    The challenge for both creatures and cultures on an island is the tendency to become isolated. Evolution doesn’t stop in this situation, but it may proceed at a different pace or in different directions than if those creatures or cultures were exposed to the mainstream of the larger world. That isolation isn’t a bad thing—it can be rather blissful as long as it lasts. The problems occur when the isolation ends and outside influences cause a crisis for the island populations where they must adapt rapidly or face cataclysmic decline. These crises usually occur when the island population is reconnected to the outside world after long periods of isolation. It’s a mixed blessing—isolation can yield unique cultures and creatures, but in today’s interconnected world those isolated populations are often at risk through mere exposure.

    I have marveled at the amazing examples of adaptation (or lack thereof) in the Hawaiian islands. This series of volcanic islands sits at the crossroads of the Pacific, yet they were isolated long enough to develop a unique culture and distinctive flora and fauna. Some of these species are remarkably resilient, like the lichens, sadleria ferns, and Ohi’a trees that begin growing within months on recent lava flows. At the same time, a number of endemic plant and bird species are very fragile in some ways and have been severely impacted by competition when exposed to introduced species. The Hawaiian culture is a great story of retaining cultural integrity and identity while incorporating influences from a variety of Pacific Rim neighbors.

    There may be some lessons here for us. First, I like to think of interpreters as one of those resilient and adaptive species. Like the Ohi’a trees, we seem to be able to sprout anew after experiencing devastating hits to programs, budgets, or staff. At the same time, we need to be careful not to succumb to the blissful ignorance of existing in isolation from the larger world. We need to stay connected to important events that will influence our future and maintain our ability to adapt quickly to new circumstances. In order to keep up with our changing world, NAI is constantly scanning the larger economic, social, political, and cultural environment we function within, looking forward for trends that we must adapt to if we’re going to remain relevant and successful. To do otherwise would be risking the long-term viability of the organization.

    Over the past year NAI has been conducting one of those periodic internal and external scans—a “check-up” on the health of the organization, if you will. Through electronic surveys, emails, and focus groups, every member has been invited to provide feedback about services and processes, and over 1,000 of you responded. The Board appointed a task force to sort through this input, draw out the trends, and make recommendations for NAI to modify our services, structure, or operations to respond to these trends. That group has accomplished its charge and is now vetting these recommendations. Ultimately, we will all vote on these changes that will constitute the next step in the ongoing evolution of NAI.

    Make no mistake about it, we must change; we must continue to evolve as an organization. The economic, social, and political climate—even the actual climate—is changing around us. In such a dynamic environment we can’t afford to stand still. Indecision or discomfort with change can be organizational suicide in the long run. How we change is up to us collectively. We have the choice to define a new future for NAI now, or let circumstances define it for us down the road. I prefer that first option, and I look forward to sharing that new future with you.

    NAI’s president Jim Covel is the senior manager of guest experience at the Monterey Bay Aquarium in Monterey, California. Reach Jim at jcovel@mbayaq.org.

  • 18May

    The world is changing and NAI isn’t—at least not yet. But we need to change. Over the past year, the staff and board have been closely examining key trends in NAI, and here’s what we’re seeing:

    • Our membership is aging. As a whole, we’re retaining long-term members (that’s good) but we’re not adding new (and younger) interpreters in sufficient numbers. As a result, the average age of NAI members is increasing. That’s not a desirable long-term condition in any sustainable population.
    • We need to establish new lines of business. NAI engages in a variety of activities—such as training, publishing interpretive books, and conducting workshops—that generate some surplus revenue to subsidize member services. (Yes, member dues don’t cover the entire cost of member services.) As the cost of member services and the number of members increase, we need to grow or add more revenue-producing endeavors. We’ve already modified our system for locating national workshops to ensure more consistent attendance and stable workshop budgets as a step in this direction.
    • We need to structure NAI for the future. Some of our sections are struggling, as are some regions. The current structure of regions and sections to deliver many member services may not be the right fit for the future. Do we realign borders? Combine some of these units of the organization? Redefine the services regions/sections provide? Change the formula for distributing resources to regions and sections?
    • Life is different for entry-level interpreters today. More interpreters are in seasonal or part-time positions where they may not get much support for memberships or attending conferences and workshops. People may be more mobile and less likely to affiliate with a region, and also more difficult to communicate with as contacts change more frequently.
    • There are more nontraditional interpreters. The numbers of docents and volunteers delivering interpretive services increases each year. Teachers, concession staff, community recreation leaders and many others may be serving as interpreters in some capacity. We need to appeal to this larger audience with training and services that enhance their professional skills and capacity.
    • Interpretation is growing around the world. Other countries are looking to emulate aspects of NAI’s programs and services, and we want to support those efforts. We need to grow our own cultural competency and skills to serve an international market.
    • Cultural diversity within interpretation and in NAI still lags behind the real world. Any plan for the future success of this organization and this profession must address this growing diversity gap.

    Each of these trends represents an opportunity to design an organization that fits the future. When the Board of Directors meets in May, we’ll initiate a planning process to design an NAI organization that will be as strong and vital in the next decade as it has been for the past 20 years. Ultimately, this is your profession and your professional organization. We have to design a sustainable organization that addresses your needs as an interpreter—now and in the future.

    Your input is essential in this planning effort. Please send us your thoughts and ideas—particularly those related to the trends mentioned above. Stay tuned to the NAI blogs, newsletters, and the NAI Now email newsletter for updates on the planning process.

    I can’t think of a better group of people to spend my future with. Let’s work to make sure we have a professional organization that supports the needs of interpretation as we venture into that promising future together.

    —Jim Covel

  • 02Apr

    Diantha Martin presenting at Region 4 workshop.

    National Association for Interpretation (NAI) has been around 56 years now, if we look back at the parent organizations, the Association of Interpretive Naturalists (AIN) and Western Interpreters Association (WIA). Their merger in 1988 brought to growing group together to create NAI. The interesting change during the merger meetings was the new name with “for interpretation,” not “for interpreters.” The previous groups were identified with the job descriptions, not the profession. The new mission in 1988 also focused on the profession in stating our desire “to inspire leadership and excellence to advance heritage interpretation as a profession.” The focus on professionalism was intentional. We knew many of managers and colleagues viewed an interpreter or guide as someone being paid to play in the forest, zoo, nature center, park or museum by talking to people and having fun. To be valued we have to be professionals doing a job valued and desired by management, not just applauded by our guests as entertainment.

    Many members focus on the financial cost in thinking about membership. It’s $60 for a professional membership in NAI today and that supplies a magazine, member discounts and a variety of other services you can select, if you want them. (Download a complete list of benefits here.) In 1980 the dues for AIN came to $35 and WIA charged $25. In inflation-adjusted dollars the cost of membership in AIN in 1980 was  $90 and $65 for a membership in WIA., so the price has come down a bit. Some compare our prices to other organizations and find that most professional organizations charge about the same amount for comparable products and services or just a little more. As professionals we should be shopping for professional development to help us be more successful and price differences should not be the deciding factor. This is our profession, not a box of cornflakes.

    It costs NAI about $152 per individual membership to provide member services for which we charge $60. The subsidy of each membership comes from other profit centers. We publish and sell books, provide training and certification and conduct national and international workshops that make a surplus in some years. Commercial and institutional memberships pay more than $152 and help subsidize every other individual membership. Still, it is not so important what it costs to support a membership as what is provided in benefits.

    Benefits have increased substantially through the years and they have become less tangible. Members a decade ago received a print magazine, journal, national newsletter, member director and regional or section newsletters. Now all of these are electronic services except for Legacy magazine. It may seem that the electronic services should be cheaper because no paper or mail delivery is involved but the technology and skill to manage them actually cost more. We consume less in physical resources and that is good, but the commitment of time and expertise has gone up. Database management, online banking, 800 number conference calling, blogging and social networking are easier these days in some ways and more complex in other ways.

    At some point we should all look at professional membership and its value in more intrinsic ways. What does it mean to us as individual professionals. I can think of times when I have found jobs, solved problems, learned vital new skills and grew personally because of the interpersonal relationships encouraged by NAI. Social networking by electronic means is bringing us all closer together digitally but face to face relationships have a value that endure. I have no close relationships from twenty-five years of digital networking, but friends from actual meetings have lasted a lifetime.

    In the past decade NAI has certified more than 8,000 professionals in six categories and the endorsement of our network has helped many of them get jobs or promotions Through their good work and skilled performance they build credibility for NAI.

    The greatest value of a professional network may not be what you get – the benefits. It should be what you give back and what you share with others. We grow the most when we train others, share our ideas at meetings and financially help someone who lacks the resources get training when she or he cannot afford it. Professionalism is not about getting so much as giving and growing. Finding value in a professional membership can be a financial exercise or spiritual growth in a community of like-minded people. We hope you will stay involved in this professional family of NAI and find the spiritual and professional support you need. And we hope you will get involved and give back to others.

    - Tim Merriman

  • 01Jan

    I never make New Year’s resolutions for myself. I don’t want to disappoint me. I do better if I sneak up on self-improvement. The year I turned 30 I read something about how the human body deteriorates after you are 25 years old or so. I looked in the mirror and decided to work at slowing down entropy. I started running and 34 years later, I’m still out there every morning, pounding the pavement or playing hamster on a treadmill. I like running in the outdoors better. If I had started running as a New Year’s resolution, it would have never happened. I sneaked up on the idea and now I cannot live without it.

    Professionally I do make resolutions. A new year offers an opportunity to start over at work. We keep score one year at a time due to the motivation provided by the Internal Revenue Service and annual audits. This year has been financially tough all over the U.S. with the recession and economic decline. The stock market plunge in 2008 left lots of organizations reeling from the decline in their invested funds. We feel it as a professional association. Our modest portfolio lost about 45%. This year it has built back about 25%, thank goodness.

    Many NAI members are hurting as jobs are lost. State parks and historic sites are often the hardest hit by the decline in tax funds. Local government programs shrink also. I have heard in the past week of layoffs in Idaho State Parks and potential layoffs in several other states. California was one of the first to report that they would close parks and layoff personnel. Nonprofits suffer terribly when donors see their invested funds shrink. The overall economy slows and most folks give less to their favorite charities.

    An amazing thing happened in 2009 and that suggests my New Year’s Resolution. We participated in the No Child Left Inside (NCLI) campaign. We added our organizational name to the growing list of people asking Congress to put environmental education into the reissue of No Child Left Behind legislation. We supported higher education bills, wetlands education and many other strategies to improve funding for education in formal and nonformal settings. It is paying off. Some bills have already passed increasing funding for wetlands education. The NCLI legislation is making progress and needs more of us to comment on the legislation through the Secretary of Education right now. This coalition now numbers more than 1,500 organizations representing more than 50 million constituents. This is all due to the good work of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation and other good people in environmental organizations working as a coalition. Our voice with Congress has grown through cooperation.

    We are not lobbyists. We are not in Washington, D.C., where learning about legislation may be easier. But the Internet has brought us all closer together. My resolution is fairly simple. I will look for every opportunity to write a letter to support a program. Let us know if you need that kind of support. We will keep you informed through this blog and NAINOW of what we learn about pending legislation. We will try to faithfully keep our members and readers in the loop. We hope you will lend your voice and name to these efforts.

    A New Year begins right now. It is 2010. We can all look for every opportunity to be an advocate for better support of natural and cultural heritage interpretation and protection. It just will not happen unless there is continued broad collaboration. Thanks for your support of the interpretive profession as members and partners. Let’s all be resolved to do even more in 2010.

    Make it a a VERY PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.

    -Tim Merriman

  • 29Dec

    woodAs we wrap up another year, it’s a good occasion to reflect back on meaningful events and accomplishments of the past 12 months. I’ve often likened NAI to a tree, comparing our efforts to prosper this organization as the kind of work that goes into nurturing a tree—you have to take the long view of decades or more to envision the eventual height and shape of the tree. Yet even ancient trees have annual growth rings and growth increments that help tell the story of the life of that tree and the environment it grew in. So if NAI was a tree, what would this year’s growth look like?

    First off, I’d suspect the growth ring for 2009 might be relatively narrow. This was a harsh year for organizations of all sorts, including non-profits. Resources were scarce, opportunities for growth were limited. In particular, the prolonged fiscal drought created additional stress on our NAI tree.

    But stress can have some beneficial effects as well. Some trees tend to extend their root systems to become efficient at finding water. They use water more efficiently, sometimes dropping some leaves or reducing growth. NAI responded in a similar way, exploring new ways to generate earned revenue and looking for ways to use existing resources in new, more efficient ways. In NAI the national office is the trunk that supports the regions and sections that are the limbs and branches of the organization tree. We’ve seen some sections and regions shrink or grow in the past year, and that may ultimately affect the shape and branching pattern of our tree.

    As a woodworker, I’ve learned that those lean years where the rings are close together create the strongest wood with the most interesting grain. I expect that will probably be the case with NAI—that coming out of this year will make us stronger, and perhaps even more interesting from an outside perspective.

    I hope that wherever you are, you had a chance to grow a little this year; that you get to rest a bit during the upcoming winter months, and that a glorious spring awaits you.

    Happy New Year

    - Jim Covel

  • 13Nov
    Trainers class in Volcanoes National Park in December, 2007.

    Trainers class in Volcanoes National Park in December, 2007.

    I recently reviewed an online curriculum for interpretation that had an activity for students inviting them to write their own definition for interpretation. I was being asked for advice, so I gave the following: “Please give your students the NAI definition (also the generally accepted definition from the multiple agencies and organizations who participated in the Definitions Project). Do not invite them to reinvent their own definition.”

    On the face of it it seems harmless enough to ask someone “What is your personal definition of interpretation?” It might be useful to provoke a conversation about one’s personal feelings about the accepted definition, but why is it important to have a definition and why should NAI’s definition prevail? I can explain that, but could not have done so a dozen years ago. In the late 90s you could have called the NAI office and asked our definition and we would have quoted two or three, Tilden’s being prominent among them. None were the ACCEPTED DEFINITION of the profession.

    When we began teaching certification courses in 2000, it became clear that we couldn’t talk about the profession with multiple definitions. It doesn’t work to tell professionals in a certification course that we have no ACCEPTED DEFINITION for what we do – that it can be defined by anyone at all and be anything they decide matters to them individually. Our definition of the profession is the Polaris of our profession, the North Star. It tells us what we should be doing and how we differ from the broader field of communication or related fields like environmental education. NAI’s definition is: Interpretation is a mission-based communication process that forges emotional and intellectual connections between the interests of the audience and meanings inherent in the resource.

    Initially we reviewed all available definitions and adapted one from the U.S. National Park Service’s three tenets of interpretation that matched our beliefs most closely. The NAI Board of Directors reviewed it, tweaked it  with the input of members and then voted to accept it as our official NAI definition in 2001. In 2006 NAI obtained a U.S.E.P.A. grant in collaboration with the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and Institute for Learning Innovations that sponsored a year-long discussion of definitions among educators and communicators in two dozen non-formal learning associations and federal agencies. This Definitions Project led to the publication of 138 terms unique to our broader field that all of us could embrace to varying degrees.

    NAI’s definition was largely accepted by Definitions Project participants with the addition of the phrase, “mission-based.” That addition recognized that professionals in this field work within the mission of an organization. We are not performing artists doing our own thing, though you may sometimes meet an interpreter who seems to be doing just that. If you are doing “art” for art’s sake, we would not necessarily consider you a heritage interpreter. You’re an artist. That’s a noble endeavor but not what interpretive professionals do. Our performances are about helping our agencies and organizations to accomplish their missions (often related to stewardship of natural and cultural resources), not about us as individuals or our art. Some interpreters are certainly artists in how they deliver their professional messages, but their work serves a purpose and fits within our definition.

    When you declare that your profession has a stated definition, it creates clarity in training and professional development.  If we each have our own personal definition of the field, what can an employer expect when hiring an interpreter? Is this a profession if we cannot unite behind a clear definition?

    There are 150 colleges and universities in the U.S. who teach at least one interpretation course. About 40 of them teach the Certified Interpretive Guide (CIG) course as part of their curriculums. The number of schools doing this increases by five or so each year. The NAI definition is basic to teaching the course. Almost 500 professionals currently hold the Certified Interpreter Trainer credential along with the rights to teach the CIG course. They also use this NAI definition.

    Though any program, university or trainer may choose to use a different definition of interpretation, I believe that doing so misses the opportunity to bring all of us in the profession closer together with a consistent guiding principle or North Star. We need to be clear about who we are, who we serve and where we are headed as a profession.

    - Tim Merriman

  • 27Oct

    Bill Vaughn, long-time columnist for the Kansas City Star, once observed: “A citizen of America will cross the ocean to fight for democracy, but won’t cross the street to vote in a national election.” Perhaps Bill was being a bit satirical, but there was often more truth to his comments than we’d like to admit. I won’t comment about the turnout for elections where government offices are being decided, but I do want to encourage your participation in the NAI national election that is now underway.

    I’ll admit that elections may not be the most exciting activity that NAI members engage in. However, elections are an important opportunity to select the leadership that will make decisions on your behalf at the Region, Section and National levels. Going back to Vaughn’s quote, now you don’t even have to cross the street to vote or even leave your home. Voting is as close as the computer on your desk.

    A few years back NAI moved to electronic balloting. This saves resources (paper), money (postage and printing), and saves lots of time on each end of the process. And it means that you can cast a vote in a couple of minutes and send it off to be tabulated. In the days of paper ballots, a national election might be decided on votes from less than 15% of the membership. With the advent of electronic balloting, that return rate is far higher—but there’s still room to improve.

    If you haven’t received an e-ballot, first check your past e-mail folders and spam folders to make sure it didn’t get overlooked. If you can’t find an e-ballot or you’d rather have a paper ballot, please contact Jamie King at the NAI office. She has a great system in place to send you a new ballot.

    If you’ve already voted, THANK YOU!! If not, you have a couple more weeks to cast your ballot. It only takes a moment.

  • 18Aug

    Sections have presented a particular challenge to NAI—section members are spread all over the country/world, making it very difficult for them to meet. Up to this point the annual NAI National Interpreters Workshop has been the best regular opportunity for a gathering of section members, but there’s so much competition with other program elements that section meetings are relatively short. That may soon be past history.

    The ZWPA (Zoos, Wildlife Parks and Aquariums) section organized the first webinar in the history of NAI (as far as I know). Nearly 60 members from around the country—and some international members as well)—attended a virtual icebreaker on Monday evening, and then participated is a number of web-based sessions the following day. The webinar is a different experience than an in-person meeting, but it was a very productive learning opportunity. Congratulations to Todd Bridgewater and Jessica Moore for organizing this workshop, and a special thanks to Dr. Pat Stephens Williams and Steven F. Austin University for hosting the meeting.

    When Don Follows and I started the first section at the National Interpreters Workshop in Aspen, the internet was a little-known curiosity. Publishing a quarterly newsletter was the primary benefit we could offer section members. Now with e-newsletters, conference calls—and webinars—technology may finally help us solve the challenge of gathering interpreters with proximate interests but distant locations.

    We’ve seen membership in NAI spread to over 34 countries now, and still growing.  The international meetings that NAI hosts have increased support and communications among interpreters all over the globe. Every time we meet one of the most common comments is “We need to get together more often.” While a face-to-face meeting is always going to be a richer experience, technology is providing more options that will better connect us all.

  • 14Aug

    yccI remember the 1970 debut of the Youth Conservation Corps(YCC) and later the Young Adult Conservation Corps (YACC). Wonderful things happened with those programs and many of our colleagues in the interpretive profession got a start as a YCC or YACC camper or worker. Many colleagues also started as staff working with these great programs, that were similar to the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) of the 1930s.

    In 1955 Elizabeth Cushman, a Vassar senior, received a grade of “A” for her senior thesis that launched the creation of the Student Conservation Association (SCA). This innovative partnership with National Park Service and later other agencies was also inspired by the CCC. It has aptly demonstrated the power of engaging young people in conservation work on public lands. Many working professionals remember that important first experience with SCA .

    There’s a proposal in President Obama’s budget for 70 million dollars for a major revival of YCC programs. About 30 million dollars may be destined for hunting and fishing oriented programs and the other 40 million is for other nature programs. Young people in these programs have grown personally and connected with natural and cultural resources in lasting ways as they have in SCA. These programs included educational programs each week along with the work. Interpreters and environmental educators usually provide the enrichment programs.

    Not everything that happened in the 70′s with these programs was good. I had a crew of hardcore unemployed youths from YACC who lived in a residential camp nearby and worked with me daily in a state park visitor center. They were enthusiastic, appreciative of the job and willing to do whatever they were asked. I was proud to give them uniforms and an opportunity to represent our conservation mission to our diverse publics.

    However, they lived in a residential camp, made a minimum wage income for full-time work and had no costs for housing and food. They would share stories at work of staying up late, drinking, doing drugs and even shared a story of stealing batteries from cars and trucks on neighboring farms. The residential camp put inexperienced young people with some adolescents with very adult habits and shortcomings. It didn’t ruin the program but I watched several teenagers sink into addictive behavior, who might not have met that temptation in a non-residential setting. At the time we informed administrators of the problems but the policies and funding were inflexible.

    I  hope that these new programs will be placed in both governmental and nonprofit settings to create diverse experiences and assist the many struggling resource organizations who have experienced year after year of budget cuts. This new infusion of labor is needed in many agencies and organizations.

    YCC  did not disappear in the past thirty years. The YACC turned into the Public Land Corps and YCC endured as a program primarily on federal and state lands, but neither program has been very well funded in my view. A few state park systems have maintained their own versions of these programs. The proposed 70 million dollars would be a major infusion of money into this important program to create jobs and introduce more young people to careers in conservation.

    NAI was one of 140 organizations who joined the National Wildlife Federation in support of this proposed initiative. Your letter or call to a member of Congress or Department of Interior Secretary Salazar can only help show support. In difficult times wonderful opportunities appear. Let’s hope this one rises to meet its full potential.

    - Tim Merriman

  • 24Jul

    Freeman Tilden III contacted us recently by email to congratulate the winner of the Tilden Award at the upcoming NAI National Workshop in Hartford, CT. I was delighted to learn that a grandson of Freeman bears his name. This gentleman serves as Training and International Sales Director for Anderson Wood Floors out of Greenville, South Carolina. I would enjoy meeting Freeman Tilden III and to hear his stories of growing up around his very interesting grandfather.

    tilden2

    I just missed meeting Freeman Tilden in 1980 at the Cape Cod Association of Interpretive Naturalists National Workshop. I was out on a whale watching trip that stayed out late due spyhopping whales just a few feet from our boat. Personally I was so seasick on the fantail with a bevy of other blue-green interpreters, that I was just praying we would one day walk on land again. When we disembarked and learned we had missed the lobster and crab cookout on the beach, I also learned that Freeman Tilden had also just left. Bummer. Seasick, missed a great cookout, missed meeting a legendary figure in our field – so it goes. I even missed the spyhopping whales.

    Another  legendary writer and trainer in our field, Dr. Sam Ham, will be at the National Workshop in Hartford from November 17-21 to speak about, what else – Tilden Was One Sharp Cookie. Actually that’s my title, not Sam’s title for the talk. I’m not sure what a “sharp cookie” is but I’ve always liked the sound of that. Sam will speak on, “From Interpretation to Protection: Is There a Theoretical Basis?”

    Tilden is certainly best remembered for the six principles he put forth in his well known book, Interpreting our Heritage (1957). It’s still one of our best selling books at NAI. In it he quotes a National Park Service administrative manual that said, “Through interpretation, understanding, through understanding, appreciation, through appreciation, protection.” Sam will carefully walk us through the social science research that relates to that statement. Sam’s message is very compelling and useful. Don’t miss his Thursday morning plenary keynote.

    In the Certified Interpretive Guide course we teach a social marketing model that looks like stairsteps with “curiosity” on the lowest step on the left and then “awareness” on the next step, “understanding” on the next, then “care about” and finally “care for.” This depicts the varied states of interest our audience has for our messages and ideas. I always like to point out that there’s an even lower step below “curiosity” called “dragged along.” Some of our audience are unwilling participants who are not even curious. Our challenge is to move people up these stairsteps from no interest to caring about and for the resource – stewardship at this highest level. This social marketing model is really the same notion as Tilden’s message about using interpretation to build understanding to appreciation to protection.

    I’m looking forward to Sam’s talk about this important idea in Tilden’s book. I do think Tilden was one sharp cookie. I hope to see you there. If you know the origins of “one sharp cookie,” please let me know.

    - Tim Merriman

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